Tokyo Disney Western River Railroad locomotive.

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S. Towler
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Re: Tokyo Disney Western River Railroad locomotive.

Post by S. Towler »

The look of the locomotive is not trademarked or copyrighted, so someone could do what Glencoe Models did with their Moonliner model kit from the 90's: call it the "MARSLINER" and have "FASTWAYS" decals included. Savvy modelers would know that you can't spell "FASTWAYS" without "TWA" on the decals! :lol:

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Steve DeGaetano
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Re: Tokyo Disney Western River Railroad locomotive.

Post by Steve DeGaetano »

That. Is. Awesome.
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Steve DeGaetano
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Re: Tokyo Disney Western River Railroad locomotive.

Post by Steve DeGaetano »

S. Towler wrote: Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:17 pm The look of the locomotive is not trademarked or copyrighted
Not an intellectual property attorney by any means, but I believe that the design of the locomotive, through the copyrighted blueprints, may be protected...
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Roy
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Re: Tokyo Disney Western River Railroad locomotive.

Post by Roy »

Roy wrote: Wed Apr 08, 2020 5:39 pm One way around Disney approval would be to sell a model of the D&RG Montezuma.
Steve DeGaetano wrote: Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:45 am As you've noted, while the Marsh is loosely based on the Montezuma, there are significant differences between the two engines. So either you're going to make a scale model of the Montezuma (which by definition is not "getting around" Disney), or you're going to make a model of the Marsh, and call it the Montezuma (to the derision of the scale narrow gauge crowd).
So far, the only commercially available model of the Marsh is the Hartland one. If one were to make a Montezuma model, it could be sold in any non-Disney markings. It could even be made in the Marsh paint scheme, without markings. If the manufacturer can work a deal with Disney for an official Marsh version, how would that be worse, than the condition that presently exists?

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I wasn't suggesting a Marsh scale model. I don't know if one could do that, even without paint and markings, without violating Disney rights. I certainly was not suggesting a Marsh painted as the Montezuma. However, a Marsh model could also be painted in other schemes, like those of Tokyo Disneyland.

I'm not David Fletcher, and I don't know that much about the original finish of D&RG locos. I do like Disney's colorful paint jobs, and I can imagine others.
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WesternRiverRR
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Re: Tokyo Disney Western River Railroad locomotive.

Post by WesternRiverRR »

Roy wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:48 pm
S. Towler wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:36 pmI'm surprised Disney/TDR/TOMIX haven't done a second run of those trains since they seem to be quite valuable.
These things were rare from the get-go. My guess is that there was some serious tool failure involved. I've heard there was a licensing problem with Disney, but I doubt that's the story. You don't invest tens of thousands in production tooling, unless you have all your i's dotted, and t's crossed.

So I can actually shed some light here. The WRRR has always been my personal love within the Disney rail empire... :wink:
I own each of the models produced by Tomix for the park in Hon30 (HOe), as well as the Die Cast toys from Tomix, the "O" scale static mode, and various of WRRR offerings. Collecting the WRRR is my jam. :D

The Hon30 were produced, under license for sale INSIDE the park. They were considered quite expensive at the time (no change there in Disney Models for sale in a park, eh?). As such, Tomy/Tomix began to offer the models for sale outside of the park, through catalog sales in Japanese shops. This apparently did not break the licensing agreements however - some overseas shops / importers started to buy in bulk and then offer resale - and this DID break the terms of the agreement. The biggest importer in the US was Mokei out of St. Louis, and he went so far as to advertise the models for sale in MR. This was the beginning of the end, as the relevant Disney group that licensed the rights to Tomy wanted further monies for the US market, and Tomy/Tomix was more than a little miffed that they were the attractions sponsor, and were being asked for yet more "fees" by the mouse.
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WesternRiverRR
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Re: Tokyo Disney Western River Railroad locomotive.

Post by WesternRiverRR »

Ok MODS - can someone remove the post above - it's incomplete and for some reason the board won't let me edit it. :cry:

Anyway - here below is the complete post:

Locoboy5150 wrote: Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:47 pm Other Burnsland members that have hands-on direct experience with getting officially licensed Disney theme park train merchandise made and sold have mentioned in the past how much of a headache it was.
Michael Campbell has certainly done more than I, but I worked on two Railroad related merchandise items for sale within the parks in 2017/2018 and I'm STILL taking Advil for my headaches! :lol: Does that tell you how hard it was?

Roy wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:48 pm
S. Towler wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:36 pmI'm surprised Disney/TDR/TOMIX haven't done a second run of those trains since they seem to be quite valuable.
These things were rare from the get-go. My guess is that there was some serious tool failure involved. I've heard there was a licensing problem with Disney, but I doubt that's the story. You don't invest tens of thousands in production tooling, unless you have all your i's dotted, and t's crossed.

So I can actually shed some light here. The WRRR has always been my personal love within the Disney rail empire... :wink:
I own each of the models produced by Tomix for the park in HOn30 (HOe), as well as the Die Cast toys from Tomy, the "O" scale static model kit, and various other WRRR offerings. (Including a fabulous unauthorized g-scale engine from China!) Collecting the WRRR is my jam. :D

The HOn30 products were produced under license for sale INSIDE the park. They were considered quite expensive at the time (no change there in Disney Models for sale in a park, eh?).

As such, Tomy/Tomix began to offer the models for sale outside of the park, through catalog sales in Japanese hobby shops. (See Tomix 7008, '84 page 105). This apparently did not break the licensing agreements, however some ingenious overseas shops / importers started to buy in bulk on the Japanese domestic market, and then offer the models for resale - and this DID break the terms of the agreement. One of the biggest importers in the US was Mokei out of St. Louis, and he went so far as to advertise the models for sale in MR. This was the beginning of the end, as the relevant Disney group that licensed the rights to Tomy wanted further monies for them being sold on the US market, and Tomy/Tomix was more than a little miffed that they were the Attraction's (paid) sponsor, and were being asked for yet more "fees" by the mouse.

In the end, Tomix decided to discontinue the line rather than paying additional costs to sell the models worldwide. Apparently sales within TDL didn't constitute enough to keep going.

For those contemplating building a WRRR model, might I suggest the plastic model from Tomy? At 1/45 scale, these can be found on ebay with about the same frequency as the HOn30 models, but typically are much cheaper.

Cheers!
Josh
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Re: Tokyo Disney Western River Railroad locomotive.

Post by Steve DeGaetano »

WesternRiverRR wrote: Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:27 pmI own each of the models produced by Tomix for the park in HOn30 (HOe), as well as the Die Cast toys from Tomy, the "O" scale static model kit,
I'm curious about the O scale model. Can you post photos or otherwise tell us about it? I'm not amiliar with it.
Steve

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Re: Tokyo Disney Western River Railroad locomotive.

Post by Roy »

WesternRiverRR wrote: Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:27 pmI own each of the models produced by Tomix for the park in HOn30 (HOe), as well as the Die Cast toys from Tomy, the "O" scale static model kit,
Steve DeGaetano wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:55 amI'm curious about the O scale model. Can you post photos or otherwise tell us about it? I'm not familiar with it.
I'm also awaiting WesternRiverRR's answer. In the meantime,

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More info: http://o-colle.seesaa.net/article/191313952.html

Scale drawings from the kit box are in the above link. Makes a nice finished model. However, the material used in such kits is too fragile for a working model.
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Re: Tokyo Disney Western River Railroad locomotive.

Post by Roy »

WesternRiverRR wrote: Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:27 pmI own each of the models produced by Tomix for the park in HOn30...
Josh, can you please tell us what the engine bodies are made of? Some photos I've seen seem to show them as unpainted, molded-in-color plastic. I gather that the markings come separately, on sticker sheets, and must be applied by the buyer.
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Re: Tokyo Disney Western River Railroad locomotive.

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Steve DeGaetano wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:55 am ]I'm curious about the O scale model. Can you post photos or otherwise tell us about it? I'm not amiliar with it.
Hey Steve and Roy, you bet.

Roy's link is the same... though I'm not sure why the builder finished it in Gold. :shock:
It's a great little kit - detailed enough that a modeler could make something really beautiful, but robust enough that younger guests with a tube of airplane glue can still have something to display on the shelf!

Here are a few photos of one of my unbuilt sets:

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Roy wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:40 pm However, the material used in such kits is too fragile for a working model.
Not true at all. In fact, the plastic this kit is molded in is as every bit as rugged, if not more so, than anything from Bachmann or the styrene I used to build models all the time. 100% if you can find the right donor mechanism, this model kit will be hands down the easiest, most straight forward way of building a solid On30 working model of the WRRR. (Passenger stock, you're on your own! :lol:)
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