Knott's No. 41

Railroads not found at Disney parks
Roy
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Knott's No. 41

Post by Roy »

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I believe this is the first paint scheme used on the Ghost Town & Calico no. 41, back in 1952. As a kid, I got a booklet from the Knott's train shop with lots of photos from the golden spike ceremonies of the GT&C. There was a photo of the engine in this scheme, in black and white. I just now stumbled on the above color photo.

Since this engine last ran on the Rio Grande Southern before going to Knott's Berry Farm, I think it's interesting that it's painted in the Denver & Rio Grande Western's bumblebee paint scheme.
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Re: Knott's No. 41

Post by Steve DeGaetano »

Roy wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:05 pm Since this engine last ran on the Rio Grande Southern before going to Knott's Berry Farm, I think it's interesting that it's painted in the Denver & Rio Grande Western's bumblebee paint scheme.
Of course, it was meant to tie in with the movie "Denver and Rio Grande," released the same year, and which prominently featured the bumblebee scheme.

No. 41 is one of my all-time favorite narrow gauge engines. It has such great lines. I was disappointed they renamed her "Walter Knott." Her original name was much more evocative of the old west: "Red Cliff."
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Roy
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Re: Knott's No. 41

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Steve DeGaetano wrote: Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:38 am Of course, it was meant to tie in with the movie "Denver and Rio Grande," released the same year, and which prominently featured the bumblebee scheme.
My childhood booklet has photos of the head-on crash from the movie. There are those who like to cite all instances of steamers painted in the bumblebee scheme. I wonder how many of them are aware of no. 41.
Steve DeGaetano wrote: Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:38 amNo. 41 is one of my all-time favorite narrow gauge engines. It has such great lines. I was disappointed they renamed her "Walter Knott." Her original name was much more evocative of the old west: "Red Cliff."
Agreed. I'm angry that the present park owners have forward-dated the C-19s to a later configuration. The engines were built in 1881, and that's the way Knott wanted them to look.

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Full size image: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/35/93/96 ... b444aa.jpg
Bruce R Pier
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Re: Knott's No. 41

Post by Bruce R Pier »

I for one are glad that the management agreed to restore the locomotives and rolling stock to the way they spent most of their life in Colorado. In real life the locomotives were not that colorful when they were delivered to the D&RG. They were out of the diamond stack era before the advent of WWI. They spent the vast majority of their life in black paint, and the coaches (which were delivered in a dark red) were painted Pullman green from the WWI era on up until the 1950's The paint scheme used in Denver & Rio Grande was dreamed up in marketing dept of the D&RGW and applied to the #268 and some coaches that were sent to the Chicago Railroad Fair (1949-50) It was then used on their diesel streamliner fleet, and later on the Silverton. Actually it was the Knott family that instituted the changes prior to the purchase of the park by Cedar Fair.
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Re: Knott's No. 41

Post by Roy »

Knott never fully backdated the train. He could've cut the smokeboxes back, and put the box headlights on old-style overhanging brackets. Also, he could've restored the dome rings, the Russia iron boiler jacketing, the flare top tenders, and the open platforms to the converted, enclosed-vestibule coaches. The paint, although not period correct, helped with the illusion, and was cost effective.
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Re: Knott's No. 41

Post by Steve DeGaetano »

I agree with Bruce. Knott's original circus paint schemes were ridiculous looking. The mash up of pointy cowcatchers. fake box headlights, diamond stacks and round domes, extended smokeboxes and generators never worked.
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Re: Knott's No. 41

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Steve DeGaetano wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:47 am I agree with Bruce. Knott's original circus paint schemes were ridiculous looking. The mash up of pointy cowcatchers. fake box headlights, diamond stacks and round domes, extended smokeboxes and generators never worked.
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I prefer the as-delivered appearance of the engines. This is what I think of, when I think of locomotives of the old west. I have zero interest, in their post-WWI look. The fact that the C-19s are authentically configured and painted for that period is just spit-on-the-sidewalk realism, to me. I know we live in an era of ugly chic, but I'm not buying it.
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Re: Knott's No. 41

Post by Steve DeGaetano »

I like the look as delivered too. It doesn't have to be one or the other. But the fact remains that Knott's earlier attempts were fantasy--and bad fantasy at that. What Knott's has today is historical accuracy--something I prefer. Sure, the paint's glossy, and there are other nods to modern theme park audiences, but overall, the attempt to actually replicate the engine's period look has been exemplary.

If they decided to backdate the engine to the 1881 appearance, that's fine, but do it as accurately as possible.

What they have today is truly equipment to be proud of.
Steve

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Re: Knott's No. 41

Post by Roy »

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This is the cover of the booklet I got in the 1960s.


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This photo was in it. Numbers 40 and 41 double heading.


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No. 40, as I remember her. Boiler jacketing, headlight and dome barrels were dark green.
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Locoboy5150
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Re: Knott's No. 41

Post by Locoboy5150 »

I like the as-delivered 1881 appearance of the two Knott's C-19s too. The problem that I have is that the park didn't go all the way to recreate that look in the early 1950s when the G. T. & C. R.R. opened. They kind of went just half way there on the backdating job and called it a day.

On the other hand, they have gone all the way to replicate the C-19s later look. Going all the way on any job is always most appealing to my eyes. That's why I prefer the current look of the locomotives compared to their earlier appearance at the park.
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